Everyone loves a good party… Unless of course, that party happens in your Airbnb without your knowledge or consent!
We all hope that our guests will be respectful of our possessions and our space, and the vast majority of Airbnb users are good people who do just that. But every now and then a bad apple comes along, and it is a good idea to be aware of Airbnb’s resolution process and think through how you might handle a negative situation should it ever arise.
Alice is an Airbnb Superhost who manages Talon Resort, a private mountain home in Tennessee, and lives there when it is not booked. After a weekend rental that was supposed to be for five people, she returned to find evidence that a keg party had taken place in her home. Worse yet, several of her possessions were missing.
Listen in as Alice shares her story and offers advice regarding how to handle such difficult situations in a professional manner – and better yet, how to spot the warning signs in advance and avoid a problem altogether!
Alice’s Airbnb standing
Alice’s communication with guest prior to stay
What Alice discovered upon return
Evidence of alcohol consumed
The guest’s response when confronted
How Alice responded
Airbnb’s resolution process
Alice’s experience with the Resolution Center to date
What Alice is doing differently to prevent future incidents
Warning signs Alice noticed in retrospect
Alice’s advice regarding how to handle similar situations
UPDATE:Alice’s case has been resolved and she has been refunded by Airbnb for the damages.
Email: [email protected]
This episode is sponsored by Hostfully.com where you can create a custom digital guidebook for your guests!
Complete Transcript for Get Paid for Your Pad Episode 145
Welcome to Get Paid For Your Pad, the definitive show on Airbnb hosting, featuring the best advice on how to maximize profits from your Airbnb listing, as well as real-life experiences from Airbnb hosts all over the world. Welcome.
Jasper: This episode is brought to you by Hostfully, a company that helps you make beautiful guidebooks for your listing. Make your own at hostfully.com/pad, and a special for Get Paid For Your Pad listeners, you’ll get a free guidebook consultation after you make your guidebook.
What’s up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Get Paid For Your Pad, and today, I have a special guest who had not such a good experience with Airbnb, but it’s also good to highlight those sometimes. So, welcome to the show, Alice Jablonski.
Alice: Hi. Thank you for having me.
Jasper: How’s it going?
Alice: Great, thank you.
Jasper: Are you kind of over the experience that you had with your Airbnb?
Alice: Well, I’m interested in reliving it with you now, but I am really hoping that it gets resolved, and that I can be over and done with it as soon as possible.
Jasper: Awesome. Well, let’s dive right into it.
You are hosting multiple properties, right? And one of the properties is a resort, a private mountain home in Tennessee, but you have more properties than that, right?
Alice: That’s correct. I’ve worked on four different properties, one in Florida and three in Tennessee. The resort is actually the primary property I’m working on now, and while it’s not being occupied, I actually live there.
Alice: So, currently, I’m on vacation for about two weeks because I do have guests in there for about a two-week span, so that’s kind of working out really well for my travel plans.
Jasper: Awesome. And you’ve been doing a very good job, because I noticed you are, in fact, a Superhost.
Alice: Thank you.
Jasper: So, congratulations. That’s very well done.
But, let’s dive into the story. Let’s start with the beginning of this booking request that you got.
Alice: Okay. So, the booking started like any other booking. I received the request, and the guest was very polite in their initial inquiry, stated the reason for their stay as wanting to do a quiet relaxing weekend in the mountains, which I definitely tote this property to be perfect for that type of stay. He was very polite. We had a little bit of back-and-forth, just sort of communicating arrival details and things like that, and, as I mentioned to you, he did not have any reviews, but, again, he was polite, he answered all my questions, and as everyone has to start somewhere, I thought that it sounded like a good idea, and I went ahead and booked him.
Jasper: Okay. And the stay was for two nights?
Alice: Yes. So, it was a Friday night and Saturday night reservation. Originally, he said he would be arriving around 3:00 to 4:00 in the afternoon, and I told him that I would be meeting him in person at that time. When it came to that day, however, he changed his time to be arriving at, I think it was, between 11:00 and midnight. So, I did not go to meet him in person at that hour, which, you know, if the future could have spoken to me at the time, I definitely would have met him in person.
Jasper: Right. And knowing what happened after that, because we already talked briefly before we started recording, it makes sense to me that he showed up a little later.
Alice: On purpose.
Jasper: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because they were supposed to come with five people, but there’s some clear indications that that turned out to be a few more, right?
Alice: Right. So, he texted on Friday. I spoke to him that night to ensure he got in okay. I checked in with him on Saturday to make sure their stay was going all right. Everything sounded good. He responded back promptly. On Sunday, he messaged me and said that they were leaving. They said they had a great time, and they’d love to come back if they were ever welcome.
So, that evening, I returned home, and I returned home about 10:30. I had been out of town for the weekend, so I got home pretty late and it was already dark. When I walked into my house, the first thing I noticed was that our woodstove had been used and there was some sort of dark red sticky liquid on top of the stove.
The number one house rule is to not use the woodstove, and that’s for a couple of reasons. One, obviously, it can be a safety issue and a liability. Second of all, the house that this listing is, is actually a house that’s currently on the market for sale, and we really didn’t want anybody possibly messing up the woodstove as it is a very beautiful piece and a very main part of the house.
So, as soon as I noticed that the stove had been used, I messaged and said, “Hey, I noticed the woodstove had been used. What is spilled on it?” And that’s when I sort of noticed more and more things.
I went into my own personal closet and noticed that my grandmother’s mink stole, which is a sort of old-fashioned style jacket that ladies used to wear in the ‘50s and ‘60s, but it was a genuine mink stole, a real fur, so I immediately noticed that it was gone, which sort of set me into a little bit of a panic, and I immediately started checking all the rooms and all my personal belongings, just to make sure nothing else was gone.
Unfortunately, a few other things were gone. In addition to the mink stole, I was missing one of the bedspreads, a king-size bedspread, another blanket that I had just purchased for the property, and a bottle of Sam Adams Utopias beer, which is a very rare bottle of beer that I actually only had because I worked for the company and that was our Christmas gift one year. So, the bottle did have my name on it and it was missing.
So, in addition to the missing items, walking around the house, I noticed there were pieces of shattered glass in my bedroom. And so, I followed them outside of the master… There’s a double-door that goes out to the front porch from the master bedroom, and I immediately saw thousands of pieces of shattered green and clear glass. Upon further investigation, it was pretty clear that the guests had been shooting pellet guns off of my front porch. They had lined up my stemware from my kitchen and some soda pop bottles that I left them as a welcome gift, and they had shot them off of my front porch.
So, we had a big task of cleaning up all the shattered glass on my front porch, and in my gardens and walkway below, because, of course, anything you shoot off a porch is going to land in the grass and in the gardens, and unfortunately, with that glass being green and my grass also being green, it’s been pretty hard to get everything cleaned up that way.
Moving forward, I found blood stains in my closets. There was vomit in every bathroom of my house, off of my front porch, on my stepping stones, partly on the stairs of the front porch.
Let’s see, what else? I really don’t want to miss anything because it’s truly extraordinary, the amount of damages, and also just evidence of this guest having a huge party at my house and not having a relaxing weekend, as they had mentioned.
Jasper: Well, let’s talk about the amount of alcohol they consumed.
Alice: Yeah. So, speaking of extraordinary feats, we found evidence of what I can only describe as a fraternity keg party. We found 177 used red cello-cups, 168 empty beer cans, 5 empty bottles of wine that was actually stolen from my wine cabinet, 3 handles of liquor. I believe one or two were vodka, and I think the other was a whiskey. I’m not sure. And then, speaking of the Utopias, that was gone and the guest actually did admit that they had drank that, too.
Jasper: Wow, that’s a lot of alcohol, you know, for five people in two nights, to consume that amount of alcohol. I mean, I’ve had some pretty good parties in my life where I’ve drank a fair amount of alcohol, but that’s a little bit over the top. I mean, I guess it’s possible, but you’d have to really drink a lot. It would definitely explain the vomit.
Alice: I agree. I agree.
Now, again, he did say that it was only five people, and when I confronted him about the fact that I saw evidence of a party after, he still held fast to that there was only five people, but I frankly just cannot believe that. As I mentioned to you before, they were really only at the property for about 36 to maybe 40 hours total, and I just can’t imagine that five people would still be living if it was, indeed, all consumed by them.
Jasper: Yeah. I mean, it’s a pretty strong indication that there was more people.
Okay, so let’s move on to sort of after they left, you found out. It must have been quite shocking, but you reached out to the guest, and you started a conversation with them on Airbnb to get some of the damages paid for, and also for them to return the stolen items.
Alice: Correct. Yes, I did reach out to them, again, through the messages on Airbnb, just because I did want to have everything documented, as possible, and viewable by Airbnb. He did not take responsibility for pretty much anything. He acted like no one stole anything. He acted as if he hadn’t even seen the mink fur. He acted as if everything else must have just vanished, which is very disappointing to me, not only because, of course, that mink piece was given to me by a very dear relative and had sentimental value, but also just because every other experience I have had with Airbnb guests thus far, if anything even was slightly amiss, they’ve always been very quick to…
And when I say ‘they’, I mean the guest and I have always been easily able to come to a resolution for both sides. So, the fact that he was not being very responsive and not taking responsibility, really sort of changed the way I knew that this situation was going to play out in the long run.
Jasper: Right. And you provided all the documentation to me, so I had a look before, and it sounds like, when you look at the messages, he makes it sounds like, “Yeah, we had a bit of a party, made a bit of a mess. Sorry about that, but it really wasn’t anything over the top. We didn’t steal anything, but I’ll ask my friends to see if maybe they stole something.” You know, he’s really trying to shrug it off and trying to get away with it, maybe paying a couple hundred dollars and an extra cleaning fee or something.
Alice: Correct. Yeah, just again, some of these messages, I find completely audacious because, as I’ve already described, the glass shatters that we found all over the porch, his explanation was, “Maybe a glass bottle or two might have dropped out of a trash bag.”
Jasper: That’s quite humorous.
Alice: Right, right. And, actually, the police detective also thought that was very humorous, as I provided all the same documentation that I showed to you this morning to them. And as he was reading back the messages between us, he was actually laughing out loud at what this kid was…how he was responding, and the very cavalier nature of speaking to a cop in that way, I guess.
Jasper: Right. And so, kind of jumping into the next phase of this process where you decided to contact Airbnb and used the Airbnb resolution tool, Airbnb then advised you to call the cops.
Alice: Correct. Yes, so like I mentioned before, I got home really late that Sunday night, and where this house is located, there is no cellphone service. So, I ended up driving about 20 minutes down the road to find cellphone service, and I called Airbnb that evening. I just felt that it was really important to go ahead and have their acknowledgment that something was wrong, and I didn’t want to waste any time in getting it resolved. So, I did phone Airbnb that evening, and essentially, the customer service agent listened to me rant about what I’d just found and did advise me to call the police as soon as possible, which we did the very next morning.
Jasper: What else did you get as advice?
Alice: Well, at that point, I didn’t really get a lot of other advice, except when I mentioned to the Airbnb customer service agent that Airbnb itself does not let us know the ages of guests as they are booking or making their inquiries. And, as many good hosts do and as I’ve heard many great hosts recommend to other hosts, I left a bottle of wine out for them, and as it turns out, these guests were underage.
And, at that point, Airbnb, the only thing that they recommended that I do in order to sort of prevent…I can’t really say ‘prevent’ this happening again, but to have a better idea, I guess, of what you might be getting into with certain guests, would be to, when they arrive at your property, to take a photo of the front and back of their license, and so that if anything were to happen in the future, that I would have their most recent government ID and contact information.
Jasper: Right. And talking about the alcohol and underage, that brings up another interesting subject because, you know, as you said, you provide a bottle of wine to your guests, as many other hosts do, and so, in the U.S., I know you have to be 21 to legally drink, right?
Jasper: Now, is there any risk that you could be sort of held responsible for these people drinking?
Alice: Well, that was my concern once I realized that there had been a huge party here, that there was almost undoubtedly underage drinking that had gone on, and I did feel very nervous and scared because I do know how serious the United States takes underage drinking and the liability factor for people who can be considered as providing or purchasing alcohol for anyone underage.
That was something that I actually brought up very intently with Airbnb during that conversation because I, as a Superhost, felt as if Airbnb was sort of putting us in the crosshairs in this particular instance, because, on one hand, we are sort of encouraged to leave out things like that and to be extra welcoming in those ways, and at the same time, Airbnb, per their policy, because they do want to sort of avoid it if they can, any sort of age discrimination happening, which I understand, but at the same time, they don’t tell us that these people could be underage, in which case, they know that they are setting someone up for a liability if an underage person were to get hands on alcohol that belonged to a host.
Jasper: Yeah, and I was just thinking, that’s good advice for other hosts, like if you do provide a bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer, or something, to maybe ask, before, the guests how old they are, right, or to maybe ask them, “Hey, can you send me a photo of your ID or something? If you’re over 21, I’ll leave a bottle of wine out for you.”
Alice: Right. Again, I can’t actually say that Airbnb would allow us to ask, “How old are you?” They seem to be of the impression that that would go against their age discrimination policy and that it would not be the right question to ask, “How old are you?” but just to go ahead with the booking, and then, once they arrive at your door, then to ask them for their government ID and take a photo of it.
So, in a way, there really isn’t a lot you can do to sort of not get into the situation where you might have an underage guest. I think it’s a pretty sticky situation that Airbnb has right now, and one that might not have a really good answer unless you’re going to be like me now, which is just that I’m not going to be leaving any alcohol out for guests from now on.
Jasper: Right, yeah. You know, I guess when the guests arrive or if you’re remote, if you’re a remote host, you could say, without asking age, you could say, for example, “Hey, if you sent me a copy of your identification, then I might leave a bottle of wine out for you.” Then, technically, you’re not asking for age, right?
Alice: Oh, yeah. You know, that’s something I didn’t think of. That would be a good idea.
Jasper: Hosts, I can’t emphasize how important it is to share recommendations of things to do or eat near your listing beforehand. Your guests won’t have to go through TripAdvisor, Foursquare, or Yelp. They won’t have to scratch their head and think about possible places right in the moment. I’ve been using Hostfully to create an online and printable guidebook to show my guests my favorite coffee places in Amsterdam. They use my recommendations, and I’m getting fewer questions from my guests as a result. I’ve also included screenshots of my guidebook on my Airbnb listing as a way to differentiate my listing from others. So, make your own guidebook at hostfully.com/pad.
Let’s move on to the next phase. So, now you’re in the Airbnb resolution phase, so to speak. Now, I personally don’t have any experience with this, which I’m fairly glad about, so I have no idea how this resolution process works. So, what’s the situation now?
Alice: Okay, so, how the Resolution Center works is, the guest has to, before their next reservation arrives, you can dispute a guest. So, what you would do is, you would send a Resolution Center request for a specific amount of money, and you just detail what the guest did wrong or why you’re requesting the amount of money. The guest then has three days to either approve the request and send the money, decline the request and give a reason why, or they can sort of negotiate the request, and the host and the guest then open up another dialogue where you are agreeing on a price. So, if the host maybe sent a request of, let’s say, $500, and the guest says, “You know, I really only did maybe $300 worth of damage,” they might agree that the guest pays the host $400.
In my case, I was advised by Airbnb to send that Resolution Center request as soon as possible. So, I got up on Monday morning, and with the knowledge that I had at that moment of what was broken and stolen, I sent a resolution request for $685, and outlining everything that was robbed, and requested all of the stolen items to be returned. Again, the guest did not take any responsibility, and again denied that they had any of my stolen items.
So, I contacted Airbnb, and they really just said, “You know, the guest has three days. If he doesn’t respond at all to the request, then you can choose to involve us.” So, I did have to wait for three full days. The guest did not respond at all, so that means that he did not deny the request, approve it, or even communicate with me back and forth on that. He just completely ignored it.
At that point, Airbnb gives you a new option, which is, involve Airbnb. And in that scenario, I had to write another sort of synopsis of the entire event, everything that happened, everything that I had found, and what communication I had had with the guest.
And so, frankly, that’s where I am up to this point. I returned home to find the mess on February 26th, so in two days it’ll be three weeks since this has happened, and Airbnb has still not contacted me back from their Trust & Safety Department in order to get this resolved.
Jasper: Right. And, you know, we’re recording this, it’s now March 17th. This will be published in a few weeks. By that time, hopefully, you’ll have a resolution, and then I’ll make sure to add it to the show notes so that the listeners can find out what happened.
Jasper: So now, basically, you just have to wait and Airbnb’s going to make a decision? And then, let’s say they decide that the guest has to pay. And then, they actually charge the guest’s credit card, or how does that work?
Alice: That’s something that I actually do not know either. Because police have been involved in this scenario, and because the guest has not, like I said, taken responsibility for anything, I’m not sure that Airbnb can just outright charge his credit card. That being said, I’m also not personally confident that that credit card would even work, considering everything else that’s gone on with this guest.
At this point, my best outcome would be that the Airbnb Host Guarantee takes over and reimburses us for the damages. I haven’t yet mentioned, but we did have to do documentation for Airbnb and have estimates taken of all the damage to the porch, and considering that the bullet holes and bullet grazes, the damage to the woodstove, considering their use of it, their pouring water and other liquids on it that caused it to rust prematurely, and the extraordinary cleaning that had to be done at the house to have it ready and safe for our next guests. So, I did have to provide all of that to Airbnb.
I also went to sort of another step ahead and sent a slideshow presentation to Airbnb, outlining every bullet hole and bullet graze, and sort of just compiling everything together into a document that they can easily review. And I did that for two reasons. One, I wanted them to really see how much actual damage there is to multiple places in the property, but I also wanted to show them that I was very serious about having a resolution to this, that I wasn’t going to forget about it, and that I wasn’t going to settle for less than what was owed in terms of getting everything repaired and back to the way it was.
Jasper: Was there anything that, you know, looking back on this whole ordeal, is there anything that you would have done different? Like, are there any learning lessons that you will take away from this?
Alice: Absolutely. I know that guests love to be able to check-in themselves remotely. I know it works better with timeframes a lot of the time, but I will never allow another guest into my home that I don’t meet personally, myself, or my parents perhaps. We definitely are not going to do any more remote check-ins. And, I am now taking photos of government IDs when I check people in, and I do let them know that ahead of time in my listing, that that’s something that’s required, so that if there are any guests that might have it in their mind that they are looking for somewhere to come and have an anonymous party, that this place isn’t going to be the place for them any longer. I also increased my security deposit and added a few more qualifiers in the house rules, such as the previous ‘no hunting’ rule had to be turned into ‘no hunting and no shooting of any kind’.
Jasper: Yeah, I thought that was funny. I noticed that when I had a look at your listing, that it said, ‘no shooting’. It’s something that I would never think about putting in my listing because I just don’t really expect people to start shooting in my house.
Alice: Correct. Yeah, again, it’s something that’s completely out of the experience that I’ve had with Airbnb, or the experience that any other hosts and guests that I’ve heard about. So, I would say, even though this is an Airbnb horror story, I can say that every other experience I’ve had has been a great experience. I really do love Airbnb and I love that we have it as a platform that we can use, because I don’t like going to hotels. I feel a lot more at home when I stay at Airbnbs, and I really do hope that the company pulls through for me and really does have our back, as they said that they would have with their Host Guarantee.
Jasper: Right. And, you know, I was just thinking, is there anything…are there any alarm bells that could have gone off, like somewhere in the process of this booking, because you did have some back-and-forth with the guest, right. I mean, I’m in the same camp as you. Like, I don’t necessarily decline all bookings from people with no reviews because you have to start somewhere, right. The only thing that made me a little bit suspicious when I looked at this particular guest’s profile is that, obviously, this was a new guest, joined, probably, maybe a few days before the inquiry was made, because he joined in February 2017, and that they didn’t have anything written on their profile.
Alice: Yes. Yes, that is definitely a lesson learned. He did have seven verifications, which to me said that, even though he did not have any reviews, he was trying his hardest to do the most vetting that he could up to that point. But, you bring up a great point, that he didn’t have a bio, and that was not something that even really registered in my mind. Whenever I was accepting the reservation, you know, we had the dialogue that was polite and good-natured. And so, yeah, that’s now something that I will definitely be doing a much more in-depth check on.
Another red flag, again looking back, would have been the change in his check-in time, once he found out that I was going to be meeting him in person. That, now, says something different to me than it did at the time, which I assumed was just traffic or hitting the road late.
So, yeah, so those would be two things that I would definitely give as advice to other hosts. As great as it might seem and feel to be getting a lot of booking inquiries, and I know you probably want to accept them all, but it is your home, and in this case, this is the home that I was living in, and it did make me feel very odd to stay in that house by myself, just knowing that these people now knew where this house was, and they knew that I was upset.
So, things like that, you just really have to think more about who you’re letting into your house, versus, maybe, the couple hundred dollars that you might get out of it in the long run.
Jasper: Right. And what kind of advice do you have for people who would find themselves in a similar situation, like in terms of, how do you deal with it and what’s important to do, like, for example, the documentations, the police, reaching out to Airbnb, etc.?
Alice: Yes. So, documentation is the number one most important thing you can do. I know that it sounds somewhat crazy to do before-and-after pictures of everything. In my case, this was a new listing for us, so I actually do have a lot of very recent before-and after pictures, as they were the pictures I had just put up on the listing.
But, all of the after-pictures I took that showed the differences and the damages, close-ups versus far-away views, so you can sort of get a scope of what the property really looks like and how it’s been trashed or littered, or what has happened to it, it may seem very tedious, and it will be, but the most documentation that you can do, and even down to doing arrows pointing to each bullet hole, like I did. I do know that the police were very appreciative of having it all laid out for them. That way, it saves a lot of time on their end, and I can only imagine it’ll save time for the Airbnb official who is eventually assigned to my case and is working through the types of reimbursements that we’re going to need.
So, in my experience, as frustrating as it can be and, as I said, as very tedious and detailed as it may end up being, just the more cool, calm and collected, and organized you can be in your approaches and your conversations with Airbnb, the better outcome I can see you having.
Jasper: Right. And I guess it’s also important to make sure that all communication is being done on the Airbnb platform so that you can use that as evidence, as well.
Alice: Yes. Yes, and that’s one thing I failed to mention before. When I first started communicating with the guest again, after finding all the damage, he did not respond to me through Airbnb. He started responding to me through text message, so I had to respond to him through text message, tell him to talk to me on Airbnb. He still sent some messages, so I ended up just having to screenshot all of those, and also including them in the documentation for Airbnb. But, I would have really rather have had everything through Airbnb, just so that there’s no questions as to what was said and when.
Let’s finish up this episode by talking about the reviews, because I noticed you left him a review and he also left you a review.
Alice: Yes. So, at first, I was hesitant to review him because I really thought that Airbnb was just going to delete his profile immediately, but I did talk to an Airbnb official specifically about the review, and he said that that might not be the case. So, I did go ahead and write a very detailed and honest review about this guest. I think the first words of the review were in all caps and it said: “HOSTS BEWARE!” If I would have read those two words on this or any guest’s profile, of course, I would have never accepted him as a guest or gone any further with the booking. So, it is extremely important to review everyone, great experiences or not.
And I just found it very comical, his review back. As you can probably tell from my reviews, I have only ever had five-star reviews, and he gave me four stars across the board, but he did have very nice words to say. He said they enjoyed their weekend, that it was a beautiful house with a beautiful view, and then, for some reason, he cited ‘dust’ as a reason for my four-star review.
Jasper: I don’t think that was the real reason.
Alice: I don’t either, and my house wasn’t even dusty.
Jasper: I think he was upset that you didn’t provide him with enough bottles to shoot off your porch.
Alice: I would agree. You know, at least I guess he found some suitable plate ware and glassware from my kitchen to use. Lucky for him.
Jasper: Or maybe that bottle of beer wasn’t exclusive enough.
Alice: Yeah. Actually, luckily, I did not find any pieces of that bottle, so my assumption is that that one is being kept.
Jasper: That one was being saved.
Jasper: I guess they had at least one tiny bit of decency.
Alice: Right, right.
Jasper: All right, well, thanks so much for sharing your story, Alice. I’m sorry to hear about your experience, but I think it’s very valuable for other hosts to hear about how you handled it, what you maybe could have done, well, I wouldn’t say to prevent it, but at least the learning lessons that you’ve taken from it.
By the way, are you okay with sharing the documentation in the show notes?
Alice: Oh, sure. Yeah.
Jasper: Because I think that would be very interesting, so that everybody can actually see the actual picture of the damages and the conversation that you had with the guest, because I think you definitely dealt with the whole situation in a very good way and also in a very organized way. The documentation that you’ve gathered is very elaborate and comprehensive, so I think it could be very valuable for all the people to see that.
Alice: Yes, I would love for you to do that. Any good that can come out of this experience in terms of for another host in the future is absolutely perfect in my mind and definitely desired.
Jasper: Awesome. So, for the listeners, if you want to check out all the pictures behind this story, go to getpaidforyourpad.com/podcast, and there you will see the episode show notes with all the documentation, and the whole story, and everything, all the links. So, go ahead and check that out.
Alice, thanks so much for sharing your story, and I hope you have some better experiences in the future.
Alice: Thank you, Jasper. It’s been great talking to you.